Byron Howard and Nathan Greno Talk Tangled
Byron Howard and Nathan Greno discuss Disney's latest animated adventure which takes a new look at the Rapunzel story
Tangled, Disney's 50th animated movie, will be released on Blu-ray and DVD on March 29. Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment recently held another online virtual roundtable event with co-directors Byron Howard and Nathan Greno, who talked about their experience working on this animated movie, the new home video titles and much more. Take a look at what they had to say below.
Did you meet each other while working on Mulan?
Byron Howard: Nathan and I knew of each other while we were working at the Florida studios. Nathan went through his training internship a year or so after me, but we really became friends during the production of Bolt. Nathan was our head of story on that project and I was one of the directors. At the end of Bolt, Lasseter handpicked Nathan to direct the Bolt short (for the DVD) and that led to him becoming a director and teaming up with me on Tangled.
What was the involvement of John Lasseter in this film?
Nathan Greno: John is fantastic to work with. He approves everything we do, and he helps with brainstorming. John is an amazing mentor. I have really learned a lot from him. I can't say enough great stuff about the guy!
In the trailer you used several sequences that didn't end up in the movie. Why leave them in if they weren't part of the finished product?
Byron Howard: Very observant! That's very true: in the initial teaser trailer we created an "alternate reality" version of how Flynn and Rapunzel first meet. This was because many of those scenes were experimental scenes to test the hair and animation technology that we were developing. We liked the tone of the pieces and thought they would be a great first look for the public.
What was the hardest sequence to deal with in this movie and why?
Nathan Greno: I'll be honest -- EVERYTHING was a challenge in this film. Rule of thumb: If it comes easy, it could probably be better! We pushed ourselves hard to make every sequence as great as it could be.
Byron Howard: Nathan and I started work on our next project about six months before we finished Tangled. It's got action movie elements, definitely, but most importantly it's got a strong emotional core... that's really the first thing we go after when creating these stories. The actual subject of the film is top secret but believe me when I tell you that if you liked what you saw in Tangled, you will love our next film.
What was your reaction when Tangled got a PG rating instead of the G rating most Disney princess films get?
I haven't always appreciated the comic relief of some Disney characters, but I highly enjoyed Maximus the Horse. From what/whom did you draw inspiration to put together his dynamic personality?
Nathan Greno: We just wanted to do something different with Max. We put together a board with photos of all the different animated horses that had been done... we wanted to do something fresh and new. We wanted Max to feel unique. Glad you like the way he turned out.
What does the line 'chameleon babies' mean in the very end of the titles?
Byron Howard: I love that people stick around until the end of the credits and see the "Chameleon Babies" credit. Pascal, our chameleon hero in Tangled, is actually based on a real, live chameleon named Pascal. The real lizard is owned and cared for by Kellie Lewis, an animation artist here at the studio. It just so happened that when we were putting together our traditional "Production Babies" credits, Pascal became a father! His chameleon life-partner laid six eggs which hatched into tiny baby chameleons. My favorite is "Nathan Jr.".
Is there a sequence you're most proud of, and why?
Byron Howard: The way Nathan and I work is that initially, we will have favorite sequences and characters in the film. At that point, we say "Great, these are working; now how can we bring everything else around it up to the same level?" That way, by the end of production, the entire film is rock solid, which makes it very hard to pick a favorite. That said, the lantern sequence is a real milestone for sheer breathtaking beauty here at Disney. I'm also very, very proud of the incredibly subtle emotional acting in the final sequences of the film.
Nathan Greno: Casting was a long process. We went to hundreds of auditions for both Flynn and Rapunzel. When Mandy came in, we knew we had our Rapunzel. Mandy IS Rapunzel. Same with Zach. We wanted our characters to feel real... we wanted them to be relatable. I feel like Zach and Mandy provided that. They were easy and fantastic to work with.
Nathan Greno: The ENTIRE crew worked hard on the film. People worked seven day weeks and skipped holidays -- everyone wanted to make Tangled great. We are all so proud of the work we've done. Would we have liked an Oscar nod? Sure. But I have to say, the true reward is working on a film people love. The audience loves this film. I didn't get into animation to win awards, I wanted to entertain people. We're all very proud of the work we've done.
Since John Lasseter took over as Disney Animation's creative director; all your films have been "princess" films. Why is this?
Byron Howard: Actually, there have been a few that weren't, like Meet the Robinsons and Bolt. That said, there was a period where we had three fairy tales lined up in a row, Princess and the Frog, Tangled, and Snow Queen. That kind of release slate felt too crowded with those types of stories and the decision was made to postpone Snow Queen to break it up a bit. It's important that the audience know that Disney Animation is diverse. Disney should be able to release an animated action movie one year, a sci-fi film the next, and a musical fairy tale the year after that. Ultimately, the quality of the films is what matters.
Given that so many studios are making CGI animated films these days, what is Disney doing to stand out in an increasingly crowded market?
Nathan Greno: Our goal is to tell great stories. Our goal is to create believable worlds and fantastic characters. We want our audience to laugh and cry. We want them to be entertained. We can't worry about all the other films out there -- we just focus on making our films work. We believe if you make a great film, the audience will show up to see it. That's our focus.
When was it decided to make Tangled more about Flynn Ryder and less about Rapunzel? Did it have anything to do with the perception that the Princess and the Frog was considered "too girly"?
Byron Howard: As we were working on the film, we discovered that this story was about both characters. The film doesn't work without Rapunzel, certainly, but it also doesn't work without Flynn Rider. We worked very hard to balance our hero and heroine; sometimes Flynn would steal the show so much that we'd have to go back and re-board some of Rapunzel's scenes to make her character more dynamic. What we love is that the final film feels balanced and appeals to both the male and female sides of our audience.
What are your personal Disney-favorites?
Byron Howard: The film that got me into animation in the first place was The Little Mermaid. I was in college studying live action film when I saw that film, and I just said "Wow.". This is something I have to be a part of. Ariel herself was a revelation to me because she was the first Disney heroine who felt real and alive to me, there was a soul behind those eyes. A great part of that appeal that I saw in her came from Glen Keane, who we partnered with on Tangled.
Can you talk about which films have influenced you?
Nathan Greno: Well for me it's Dumbo. It's one of my favorite films of all time. It works EVERY time you watch it. It makes you laugh and cry EVERY time you watch it. I saw Dumbo when I was a kid and I knew I had to work for Disney. I was in first grade. I didn't understand how animation was made - but I knew I wanted to work for Disney.
Why did you decide to shoot the movie using CG? Would it have been different if you had chosen traditional animation?
Byron Howard: Nathan and I love BIG movies. CG animation gives you this enormous box of tools to play with to enhance and expand the world and characters that you're creating to tell the story. We love traditional hand-drawn animation as well, but to realize the scope of the film Nathan and I had in our heads, CG was really the clear choice.
I saw your film twice in cinema and absolutely loved it! But how could you explain your decision to leave Maximus and Pascal silent? It is pretty unusual for animal-sidekicks in Disney animation films not to talk!
Byron Howard: Great question. Nathan and I are huge fans of silent film comedians like Charlie Chaplin, Harold Lloyd, and Buster Keaton. We said to each other "What if Charlie Chaplin was in this movie?" That thinking was a massive part of the decision to keep Maximus and Pascal silent, but expressive. It really worked out, no matter where we went all over the world; people could not get enough of that horse.
What, in your opinion, makes Rapunzel different than all the other Disney heroines?
Nathan Greno: Rapunzel is a princess that doesn't know she's a princess. That makes her different. She's not a girl who sits around waiting to be rescued. She's a tough, smart person -- we wanted this film to be full of 'girl power'. Even though this film takes place in the past, we wanted the characters to feel modern and relatable. We wanted Rapunzel to be a role model for people of our generation.
Byron Howard:Blu-ray allows you to see Tangled as Nathan and I saw it during its creation. The colors are perfect, the resolution is unbelievable, and the sound is as rich and full as when we mixed it on our recording stage. I love digital media because it preserves the beauty of these films so accurately. Not to mention extensive extras that take you behind the scenes of Tangled.
Almost every Disney story has a second message. What do you think is the underlying message in this film?
Nathan Greno: There are a number of messages in this film. "Live your Dream" is one of the messages we hope will really hit home with people. I grew up in a factory town in Wisconsin. I remember some people from my hometown thought my dream of working for Disney was nuts. I believed in my dream. I worked hard to make it happen. Our studio is filled with people who have stories like mine. Rapunzel believes in her dream. She won't let anything stand in her way to achieve it. We hope Tangled inspires our audience to live out their dreams too!
What makes a perfect fairy tale for you guys?
Byron Howard: Ingredients like emotion, action, adventure, and comedy. Nathan and I want all of these things in every story we tell, whether it's a classic tale or a modern action movie.
Did you expect that Tangled would be that successful?
Byron Howard: It's the best feeling in the world when audiences really love your work. We make these films to entertain, and to move people emotionally, so when your film becomes a hit, you know that you've done your job right. Tangled's massive success was very welcome news, and we know that Disney Animation's future will be full of strong films like this.
How long did it take to make this project?
Nathan Greno: Usually you have 4 to 5 years to create and finish an animated film at Disney. We did it in about 2 years. The film had been in development and it had a release date -- and we were brought on to direct, the studio asked us to hit the release date. Now if we couldn't do it, they would have moved the date... but Byron and I thought it was possible. We work with an amazingly talented crew. A VERY devoted crew. The schedule was hard on us. We worked though most of our weekends and skipped holidays. It was a crazy time. We had a story we wanted to tell and we wanted the film to be great. We made a film in 2 years that looks like it took 5 years to make. That's pretty incredible. I thank the crew for that. We made a film we are all very proud of.
One of John Hughes' characters said the famous words 'that when you grow up, your heart dies.' I consider Tangled a proof that it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. How did you manage to create such a magical tale, combining both Disney's and Pixar's best features?
Byron Howard: I love this question because I love John Hughes. His writing was a great blend of pure entertainment with deep, truthful emotion. As we become adults, I think it's very easy to become numb and distracted by the thousands of details that we have to process each day to live our lives and make ends meet. Films like Tangled are so wonderful because they sweep away all of that for a few hours and remind you of what's really important: love, compassion, trust and hope. That's why Nathan and I focus so much on the emotional core of our movies; if we entertain you but don't move you emotionally, we haven't fully done our job.
What were the biggest challenges in the development of this film?
Nathan Greno: The hair was the biggest challenge. Without a doubt. Long realistic hair had never been done in a CG animated film before. Never. CG hair is usually in a ponytail, or cuts off at the shoulder because anything longer than that is a tech nightmare. Lucky for us, we work with some incredibly smart people! Byron and I were in the story room coming up with this wild stuff, "The hair is going to be used a bullwhip! She's going to tie people up with it! It's going to glow! It's going to get wet!" --all this stuff that hasn't been done before. Our crew got a little pale when they heard our pitch... but they figured it out. They believed in our story. They wanted to bring that story to the big screen. I can't thank our crew enough. They made the impossible work.
What is with the name change from Rapunzel to Tangled?
Byron Howard: During the first year of creating the film, it became clear to Nathan and I that the film was about both characters. It felt weird to us to keep the name of the film as RAPUNZEL. For example, you wouldn't rename "Toy Story" as "Buzz Lightyear", because Woody is as much a part of that story as Buzz. Knowing that, we started looking for alternate titles. Tangled really appealed to us as a title because it felt smart, and sophisticated but still made it clear that the film was going to be a fun ride.
This movie is sure to be a Disney classic...now, Walt always said 'for every laugh there should be a tear' do you believe this movie Tangled captured that essence?
Byron Howard: We love that quote from Walt Disney. It's a guide for every film this studio makes. We definitely want those tears, every time. We're in the story room trying to make ourselves laugh, and cry, to feel something genuine and real. It's the highest priority for us, and we LOVE when people come up to us and say "I cried three times." That's a great reward.
Every animation movie, today, has a 3D version. Is this something that changes the way of imagining and directing a cartoon?
Byron Howard: You have to be very careful with 3D. It's very easy to distract from the story by throwing too many eye-popping effects at the audience. The trick is to balance the amazing depth that 3D gives you with the emotion and clarity of the story. Every 3D effect you produce should help the story, not hurt it.
Can you talk about the decision to make this a CGI movie versus doing it in traditional animation?
Nathan Greno: I don't think the hair would have worked in 2D animation. It just would have been a big yellow shape... the texture of the CG hair really helps to sell the character of Rapunzel. We also had a number of BIG action sequences we wanted to do in this film. The CG "camera" is great for that. It's a lot like a live action camera -- but even more flexible. You can move your camera around sets and get any shot you want. 2D and CD animation are both storytelling tools. We very much believe CG was the best choice to bring our story to life.
Byron Howard: The scope and complexity of Tangled is huge. Bolt was a simpler story to tell in many ways. The unfortunate thing about both films is that they were both made on extremely short, two year schedules (we normally get four years). I'm immensely proud of both movies but I am staggered by how much our studio has grown and matured between these two movies. You'll see us tackling bigger and bigger films in the future, I promise.
I know you have been working in Disney Studios for many years but I guess you felt a lot of responsibility and pressure in accepting to direct the 50th Walt Disney movie, didn't you?
Nathan Greno: Yeah it was a TON of pressure. We wanted to make a great film and that is a giant challenge. On top of that, we are working with John Lasseter. Lasseter only accepts the best. On top of that, we found out that this was going to be the 50th animated film from the Walt Disney Animation Studios! Ok! Enough! Are you trying to kill us?? It was a ton of pressure and a ton of work... and we couldn't be happier with the results!
Byron Howard:Glen Keane has been the heart and soul of Disney Animation for the last three decades. Nathan and I were always hoping that we would get to work on a project with him one day. After Nathan and I stepped in as directors Glen worked with our animation staff to create the most extraordinary human animation ever made. The great thing is that we have these young, energetic animators fresh out of school and Glen knows how to guide and channel that energy into amazing performances, pushing them to top themselves scene after scene. It's a great mix of youthful energy and experience.
What advice would you give to anyone who wants to pursue a career in the industry?
Byron Howard: Do what you love, and do it with passion. Passion and dedication will carry you far in any occupation, and especially in the creative arts. When John Lasseter chooses you as a director, it's because he's seen that you have a fire in your belly, so to speak, a burning need to tell these stories and tell them well. Also, write to your heroes. I wrote to Chuck Jones years ago, and he wrote me back! Amazing.
How much of Grimm's tale did you use - not meaning the story itself, but more in terms of thinking about the characters?
Byron Howard: What we loved about the original tale of Rapunzel was that it had the potential to be a great coming of age story. Tangled is really about these two characters figuring out where they belong in the world. Again; deep, relatable, human themes are the key to any great story.
Vladimir is spoken (voice acted) by Richard Kiel. So let`s be honest, which of you two is the James Bond Fan that the legendary Jaws gets a Voice Part in your movie?
Byron Howard: I confess. It's me. We needed someone with a naturally low voice to do Vladimir, and so we asked our casting director to see if Richard Kiel would do it. I'm a HUGE Bond fan and working with Richard was a dream come true. I giggled through the whole recording session.
What's the secret of Pascal's success?
Byron Howard: He's adorable. Just like Nathan and myself.
Any final thoughts on Tangled?
Nathan Greno: I just wanted to say thanks for all the great questions! I just wish I could type faster. This has been a lot of fun for me. Also: a BIG thanks to all who support the film -- Tangled has been a true labor of love for us!