Captain America: New World Order, the fourth movie in the Captain America franchise, won’t be coming out until 2024, but there are plenty of reasons to get excited. The film was announced at Marvel’s infamous Hall H panel at San Diego Comic-Con. It was a panel that made so many announcements, fans are still unpacking all that was revealed for the MCU’s Phase 5 long after SDCC has ended. Captain America: New World Order was one of the big Phase 5 movies on the MCU’s list, and despite there being plenty of distance to go between now and then, comic books can teach us a great deal.

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier added a lot of new material to the MCU. People like U.S. Agent Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine, the return of Zemo, and even a setup to introduce Patriot. It was probably the Phase 4 project that had the most potential for growth hidden in its story. Having Sam Wilson secure his place as Captain America alone was a huge step. With that series as the most recent Captain America project, it’s our biggest source of information when looking at New World Order. Still, another big clue is the film’s position on Marvel’s timeline right before Thunderbolts. So there’s a lot we can think about if Marvel is planning on using that Captain America film to set up for Thunderbolts as well. But without further ado, let’s speculate!

The New World Order and Red Skull Connection

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Marvel Studios

The title of the film is pretty loaded, to begin with. Maybe you’ve already seen some fan theories around the internet stating that this could indicate the return of Red Skull. An interesting thought, considering we’ve already seen his ghost. But being dead never stopped any comic book villain from causing trouble before. The connection between Red Skull and the title is fairly simple: New World Order is the name of a secret organization, led by Red Skull in the books, that attempts to do what else but take over the world. Though, when the group was introduced in the comics, they appeared in Hulk’s storyline. There was a battle in which Hulk was mind-controlled and needed the Avengers to save him.

Related: Is Marvel Secretly Developing a Secret Wars Movie for Phase 5?

But the MCU has never held very fast to the comic book canon when it comes to things like this. In The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, that sneaky spy Contessa Val did mention that she was working for some type of shadowy power. But that could have meant several different people: the Secret Invasion Skrulls, Sharon Carter as the Power Broker, the Secret Invasion Skrulls as Sharon Carter as the Power Broker. But it is likely that Val is working for this New World Order.

In the comics, she often does business with Hydra or its various incarnations, the New World order being one of them. Or, if she isn’t working for New World Order, it’s possible that what we’re seeing is the early stages of someone trying to assemble a different kind of team.

The Thunderbolts

Masters of Evil and Thunderbolts in Marvel Comics
Marvel Comics

The fact that Captain America: New World Order is placed right in front of Thunderbolts on the list is hard to ignore. There was a lot of possible setup for Thunderbolts from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier as well – all speculation, of course. Val could potentially be using her position to recruit a U.S. Agent for the team, the same way she spoke to Yelena Belova at the end of Black Widow. It could be quite possible that she is attempting to play a type of Phil Coulson role in the way that he recruited some of the Avengers.

Related: More Avengers Movies Are Coming Eventually, Just Not in Marvel Phase 4

Naturally, her motives may be a little bit darker, but that’s what the Thunderbolts are all about. Both U.S. Agent and Belova as the new Black Widow were both members of the Thunderbolts at a time.

Baron Zemo was the original founding member of the Thunderbolts as well. And Val’s appearance in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier could have been part of some grand scheme Zemo was organizing during his brief release from his imprisonment on the Raft. Captain America: New World Order could be a turning point in the Captain America franchise when we see a lot of these grey area heroes/villains become manipulated by this secret organization into doing something like, say, releasing all the villains that are currently being held on the Raft. If the MCU sticks with its decision to have Red Skull killed off, then Baron Zemo would definitely be on the short list of people who could be running the organization.

There are a lot of possibilities for Marvel to work with here. But at the moment, most conspiracy theories will be pointing towards Secret Invasion. After our heroes defeat that threat, things are sure to begin unraveling, and shadowy plots will undoubtedly start revealing themselves.